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I Read Comics

Wednesday, January 18, 2006

Show #19 - Jan 18

Show 19 on MP3

Ultimate Spider-Man trades
More yaoi! Skyscrapers of Oz from Kittymedia
Gregory in NZ visits a comic book store and makes suggestions
Current JLA Classifieds, "Maps of Hell"
Y the Last Man (first three trades); read Ginger's review here to find out about cloning
Et quo vadis?

Music, as always, by Mayerson.
Other stuff I listened to this week that I love: The Ricky Gervais Show on XFM

A proud member of the Comics Podcasts Network!

This podcast is sponsored by the Lincoln Heights Literary Society - Ontology On the Go!

She is such a trannie.


  • Regarding your question of whether or not your podcast helps: I think any time there's another voice of another person who loves comics, but is also willing to say what they don't like, it helps.

    To clarify: I'm not leaving comics, but leaving making them for anyone besides myself. I plan to self-publish this year.
    I think the current comics culture is a damn mess and I'm not interested in continuing to fight within it.
    That means making and selling comics a different way.

    By Blogger Lea, at 6:19 AM  

  • Hi, this is Irra from Barcelona with my brand new blogger identity!
    Well, damn! I've got the three first volumes of Y The last man but I have only read the first one, so now I can't listen to your show #19 until I had read the other two, which will happen maybe next month (that's the kind of a busy guy that I am these days). Aarrgg!! :(

    By Blogger the Walrus himself, at 7:29 AM  

  • Thank you for your comment, Lea, and I should have clarified that you weren't leaving completely, but going to make art for yourself. I applaud you.

    By Blogger LT, at 10:14 AM  

  • Thanks to you, Lene, I will now unconsciously equate Gwen Stacy with Harvey Fierstein. Like I ever needed that correlation!

    So that you know, the Ultimate hardcovers typically reprint the equivalent of two trade paperbacks. So your volume 3 hardcover reprints the same issues in volumes 5 and 6 in trade paperback form.

    At the library, keep an eye out for hardcover volume 2 or trade paperback volumes 3 and 4 to catch up.

    By Anonymous Chris, at 10:28 AM  

  • Well that podcast ended rather sadly. Personally i think allot of progress has been made in the industry against sexism, yes its still not enough but i admire the women who still work in comics, they set an example for everyone that they can overcome such ignorant minds.

    It wont be easy but as time goes on things will change. For example racism still exists today but things have gotten better compared to 20 years ago. It takes time and strengh but it can be overcome.

    Actually recently i heard that there might be a case of sexual discrimination in the comic industry going public as the person fights it in open court. Im sure when this happens it will open allot of eyes.

    Personally Lene i think with this podcast you are expanding the minds of male readers with this cast, thats something to be admired.

    Just my two cents,
    David Arroyo

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:18 PM  

  • well you have put me off getting any Y: The Last Man trades now!!!

    i have read and heard so many good things about this book i was itching to get the first few trades on payday one of these months.

    now i am not sure.....maybe you could put a post up on the comic geek speak forum and debate with brian as i have heard him say many times how he loves this book?

    By Blogger KYUSS, at 12:14 PM  

  • Damn LT. You've got it stirred up over on the comicgeekspeak forum. ;)

    The Y The Last Man thread is getting pretty good. I of course said everything in your review was wrong. Kidding! Kind of...

    Anyway, go check it out. We miss you around there!

    By Blogger ManEatingTarp, at 2:33 PM  

  • I think your podcast does help and you should keep on keeping on. Nothing will ever change unless women like you put yourselves out there and stir things up.

    As for your Y: The Last Man rant - I actually really like this book but after listening to your criticisms I had to rethink some of my ideas about it. Having an actual woman talk about what is often referred to as a "chick book" definitely opened my eyes to some things in Brian K. Vaughan's writing that are not flattering to women at all.

    Which kind of proves my point, I guess. You're voice is an important one so don't stop using it.

    Oh, and Harvey Fierstein as Gwen Stacy - F--king priceless! I hope they make it a musical - they could go all sturm and drung German opera with Gwen's death and then have Peter go West Side Story on Norman Osborne's ass.

    Anyhow, my hangover is killing me so I'm gonna sign off and find some aspirin. Happy Saturday!

    By Anonymous twistedchristopher, at 8:35 AM  

  • This has to be my favorite quote of yours:

    For all the women that're in there, it's not a book about women at all. It's a book about Yorick. Stupid fucking Yorick. It's not about the women. Y'know. The man. It's all about him! It's always gotta be about him.

    I thought the book was called "Y the Last Man." That's pretty indiciative of who the comic is about.

    I enjoyed the rest of your podcast, but the entire rant on Y was pretty much a carbon copy from Ginger's rant a year and a half ago. I know no comment I type or complaint I have is going to change that the book was shit for you, but a lot of what you complained about was actually covered in those TPBs. So as a die hard Y fan, I'll say thanks for giving it a chance, and it'll all be over soon enough. There's only 19 issues left until the finale.

    By Blogger Jeff, at 1:38 PM  

  • Hi! I totally agree with all your opinion on Y the last man. Your criticism is absolutely justified and the things that bothered you are the exact same things that bothered me as well.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:47 PM  

  • Lene,

    I've been listening to you for a couple of months now, and I was really looking forward to your (spectacular) rant about YTLM. Please know that it really does mean a lot to hear your voice and your opinion as a woman about the comics industry and the content of what we read. I was so excited when I discovered your blog, and you've never disappointed.

    I'm a cartoonist myself, working on my first graphic novel, and I've been active in this industry long enough to see with my own eyes the subtle and not-so-subtle suppression of women in comics. I find 95% of what's on the shelves in your average comics shop offensive on some level, usually with the T&A portrayal of women but also with the complete lack of decent female characters altogether. Regardless, even when you take a look at the best of the lot - the indies, the lesser-knowns - you still see crap by men promoted over great work by women.

    I don't know if you say this (I found it on the Fantagraphics blog), but there's a fancy dealio going on in NYC this month entitled "Nine Cartoonists Speak - A Celebration of the Current Golden Age of North American Comics." It's got Ware, Clowes, Spiegelman, Brunetti - all favorites of mine - and all, of course, white males (with the one exception of Jaime Hernandez). What a surprise. Each time I pick up an anthology, I check the ratio of male-to-female artists, which on the better days clocks in at 9:1.

    I've seen a close friend of mine's graphic novel get picked up and mass-marketed before even out of the rough draft stage (don't get me wrong; he's incredibly talented), and the same people he and I shmoozed with ignored my novel-in-progress without a single look at the work. I can't tell you the number of times I've had men in "the biz" peek at my work and then act oh so incredibly surprised that it was good, then back away quickly before I could, I dunno, bite them. It's incredibly pervasive, and really, the only cure I can see is the slow one - flood the market with so many women's voices that we become impossible to overlook, and for god's sake stop spending money on sexist shit. I take your podcast as an excellent example of the slow solution, one of many crusaders facing into the sexist shitstorm that awaits us, blowing back. Keep going, and man, if every rant of yours is as awesome as this one about "fucking Yorick," rant on!


    By Blogger Sarah O, at 5:55 PM  

  • Rock on, lady. I hated Y as well and my reasonings were not as well thought out as yours. I didn't like the characters and thought that the fact that the most pressing detail in his life is finding his girlfriend - across the world - was ridiculous. Sure, think about her, worry about her, but he is essentially standing there with a gun in his face and preoccupied with whether he left his iron on.

    I'm just impressed you made it through the first three books. I couldn't get past the first.

    Keep up the good work. You rock.

    By Blogger Mur Lafferty, at 7:34 PM  

  • I would just like to say that I sincerely hope you don't become a hermit.

    By Blogger Bill, at 10:40 AM  

  • all i can say is there is nothing more attractive than an angry woman angry (as long as i am not the object of the rage hehe)

    im franco all the way from Manila, Philippines. Ive never been interested with Y although i love Vaughn's work in Ex Machina..Never did like Y and never will like Y...

    but i think if Y would be made as a TV series, it would be a hit..mainly because it would be a show about a guy who lives in a world of women...that would really sell i bet

    great podcast, ive been a listener since last year..aside from CGS, yours is my fave podcast as well

    By Anonymous habits, at 2:52 AM  

  • all i can say is there is nothing more attractive than an angry woman angry

    oops--typo! sorry about that lene

    By Anonymous habits, at 2:55 AM  

  • I agree with most of your points about Y. But I still read it. Why? It's that soap opera thang of wanting to know what happens next. It's implausible as SF, but great as a cliffhanging adventure story. That and the fact that I don't pay for it.

    I commiserate with you despair at the prevalence of misogyny in the comics hobby. I'm not really a fan of SF in the sense of reading it exclusively, but am a fan of literature in the broadest sense. So when I come back to comics from reading other types of books, the sexism is very apparent.

    I'm a guy, but one with feminist sensibilities.

    By Blogger Eric Kibler, at 2:00 PM  

  • I am drawn to your Podcast to hear every word you have to say I love your opinions and your rants. They help me shape my own views and they give me a better understanding from of course the female perspective. I hope in your last Podcast I didn’t detect a little discouragement of course men are pigs whom slant their lack of fulfillment by drawing women in such a grossly unrealistic way. Of course I myself won’t excuse myself from the group I tend too get lost myself in the mix but that is why I listen and try to understand. So I hope you continue with your reviews, comments, and rant. Even your crazy gay Manga. I really appreciate all you do!

    By Anonymous Art, at 11:22 PM  

  • First off, great podcast--I got on board with the Harlan ep and have listened to your earlier casts as well: good stuf!

    Second: Yeah Gwen DOES have that Lord Fanny (from Grant Morrison's INVISIBLES) thing going on--freeeeeky...

    As to the end of #19, as long as the boys rule the sandbox, we're likely to see the same old same old, unless you go off the beaten path--WAYYY off. I remember Christine Gathercole (sp?) from Alan Moore and Bill S's (sorry dont eant to try to spell that last name from memory) BIG NUMBERS. One of the reasons I enjoyed that very limited run was the fact that it wasn't all T&A&T&A&T&A, as it were. She and the other characters were so REAL--no spandex, leather or physics-bending bust-lines. But who wants realism these days when you can have Reality (in all its gaudy horror, instead)?

    I know that's a long way to go to say that I agree with you about the state of mainstream comics and the industry that spawns them, but if someone doesn't shout it from the rooftops, then who'll ever realize that it can be better?

    Keep fighting the good fight and know that you're nowhere near alone.

    Can't wait for the next 'Cast!

    ps: If you do exile yourself to NM, say hello to Stephen R. Donaldson (of THOMAS COVENANT fame) for me. Try his GAP series for females who stand apart from most of what is out there.

    Long days and pleasant nights to you, ma'am.

    Todd Haney
    Catawba, NC

    By Anonymous allazar, at 12:11 AM  

  • Thank you, thank you for your comments on the USM art of Mark Bagley. I was beginning to think I was the only one who didn't like it. I think it's something like the Rob Liefeld art of the 2000's; it'll look awfully ugly and dated to everyone in a few years.

    I'm not going to freak out on "Y the Last Man" because I don't particularly like it either, and I can't see what all the hysteria over at the CGS board is about.

    You have a very good podcast, by the way. I've been listening since show 3.

    I just wish it came out a little more often.



    By Anonymous Dean, at 6:24 AM  

  • Hi LT!

    I finally had some time two read the three first TPBs of Y the Last Man and could listen to your show without being afraid of spoilers.
    OK, so here i go.

    Well, I couldn't agree more. In general I don't like this Ultime thing Marvel invented, but I must admit that Bendis really rocks. But yes, I have never liked the art so much. I would never compare Bagley to Liefeld, thoug. It's too insulting!
    Oh, and that Gwen Stacey you scanned... she reminds me a guy that used to be a friend of mine when I was studying Physics at university. I think I'm going to e-mail him the picture (I don't know what's he going to think about that...)

    I haven't read any yaoi comic yet, but I know about that sexual censorship that they've got in some manga. I don't know if you, there in the USA, have read (or watched on TV) a Japanese manga called Shin-Chan. It's about a 5 year-old child and he's always doing all kind of mischiefs. It's not strange (specially in the manga) to see Shin-Chan show his butt and his penis, but he never says the word. I mean, he would never say penis but, for instance, elephant. A Japanese friend of a friend of mine told us that in Japan sometimes the name of a thing is more important than the thing itself, so there's no problem with the child showing his penis around as long as he doesn't say the word. This said, I can't understand why they show nothing in those erotic manga. Maybe it's not about genitals but about the act (penetration and this kind of stuff). Anyway, who knows. Japanese are too complicated.

    Your review was very funny -- and very interesting, too. I've read what Ginger wrote and your opinion is quite like hers.
    But the fact is, after having read Y, I can't help liking the book a lot. It maybe is caused by my male Y choromose. :P
    I think story is good and keeps surprising the reader with every issue, and this is something that you can feel with a very few comics these days.
    I actually agree with a lot of what you said about how Vaughan descibres this post-apocalyptic world, and yes, he's clearly avoiding some topics (like political and social organization, energy, food...). But authors do it all the time, specially science-fiction authors: they prefer not to talk about a specific and difficult topic rather than to put it wrong. It's not the most valiant way to do it, but it's the eassiest one. On other words, as long as the comic keeps me entertained and I feel it's well written, I won't really care about these things. As a former Physics student, you can imagine how I feel every time I watch Star Trek. But if the plot is good, I can accept all that noise in the space and the gravitational fields and everything, because all that stuff is scientificly wrong but it works perfectly well with the drama. Trying to take Y's scientific facts so seriously is like trying to do the same in Michael Crichton's books. Fiction is fiction, it doesn't matther how many time someone (the author, the publisher, whoever) spent saying how realistic it is.
    It was girl who told me how awesome this comic was, but I think that the real problem here comes if you think that Y is a comic for girls or about girls. I don't know whether Vaughan or Vertigo have ever said so, but if they have, then they were wrong. I don't think the comic is only targeted to boys, but it's definitely not targeted to girls as its main readers.

    And that's all. Your podcast has been as interesting as always. It's funny to discuss about comics!
    Hear you in show #20!

    By Blogger the Walrus himself, at 9:42 AM  

  • Hi LT! It's me again! (oh yes, it was a big mistake to put an internet connection in the same computer I use for work).

    I just wanted to say how much those words you said at the end of the show made me think.
    I'm trying to start my own podcast (it will be a big event in my life the they I record show #2) but I'm thinking about making a show about the topic.
    Why are so few girls reading comics out there? Is it because of the way the industry treats women? Why female characters are portrayed the way they are on comics?
    I don't know, maybe this topic is too big for my English, but I think I'm gonna try.
    Some day.

    By Blogger the Walrus himself, at 9:57 AM  

  • Ohhhh yeahhh...
    Men have it EASY. I for one don't have any problem when my testosterone levels overwhelm my logic. I certainly have never had a problem with the pressure placed on me to be adequately masculine. I also never have any problems competing against alpha males who see me as a threat simply because I have testicles. Forget about expectations of physical performance, not an issue. And rejection from women? Nah, I follow their general recommendations to be an understanding sensitive nice guy and I NEVER have problems luring them in! My job at Marvel Ent? Why, I wasn't hired at all due to a manager's latent homosexuality, and I certainly don't have to worry about what I'll have to do next to get that coloring job! Oh, and the penciller on my book never had to undergo years of humiliation and isolation, turning only to his obsession of draftsmanship to soothe his society imposed inadequacies--nope, he draws big-breasted women simply because he was born with a pad and paper in the womb giving him an unfair edge (because he’s a MAN *hisss* after all) so that he may soil womankind’s attempts to break free from their shackles of oppression!

    WE MEN HAVE IT EASY. We sit around all day in our underoos smoking Cubans and reminiscing about how we strategically planned to humiliate, degrade, and overlook women and their achievements. Never mind biology, evolution or societal pressures...we men are morally bankrupt, that’s the real deal.

    And comics? That’s our creme de le creme! It took a roomful of 25,000 pairs of ball sacks to create the genius that is PowerGirl, and many more to essentially terminate the likelihood that women will ever voice themselves within the medium! Our evil extends to the creation of barbarian of fame, Conan; used not only to propagate passive sexism, but also to make women readers adore him while doing so! God forbid women should ever possess even a modicum of control lest it turn into the music industry (where truly powerful women have usurped the majority of creative control, where you never see any female willingly degrade herself for her art!).

    We men have it easy--and we are so diabolical that our will-zapping contraption has once again masterfully achieved its task. At the press of a mere button, our courageous leader (the bottled head of Three’s Company’s cyborg-bodied Normal Fell) has once again sent out a special sonic frequency that has prompted one more female podcaster to surrender her will to cast pods. With another push of the button he also caused a multitude of spontaneous wind gusts, which resulted in several women having to push their skirts down to avoid having their panties gratuitously displayed. Oh, and you know that expression “You’re exaggerating?” Well, that’s the result of Colonel’s Fell’s Collective Cosmic Response Thingy, which automatically replaces male insecurity with said phrase.

    Yes, we men have it easy. We have also taken charge of food processing plants so that we may imbed all earthly consumables with our super-secret Chemical Corolla. This concoction, when digested, suddenly removes a female’s ability to identify herself as anything other than a woman. Thusly, women will realize and intensely focus on the fact that they are being hopelessly being oppressed as they are being oppressed! This leads to all sorts of narrow-minded thinking and eventual depression. This is KEY in thwarting solidarity among the sexes and squelching that pesky tendency to forge new ways to communicate on so-called “equal” levels.

    I thank you for making it easier.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:44 AM  

  • Lene- I'd heard a positive review of Y on another podcast, with praises that led me to believe I probably wouldn't share the reviewer's opinion. Thanks. Now I don't need to bother. Any guy trying to get his girlfriend into comics should start with the pocket books of Strangers in Paradise by Terry Moore, FYI.

    Keep up the good work. I've been comic-free for the last 7 years except for manga, trades, and webcomics, and I'm considering that big first step back into a shop. I feel like a rehabbed alkie planning a liquor run. I had stopped enjoying comics for about 2 years before I finally quite buying in a spirit of hope. Your reviews and their level of detail make me think that I will now be able to find some good reads.

    In short, you _are_ making a difference. You may not have changed the attitude of the majority of male comic geeks (yet), but you've definitely drawn this female comic geek back toward the fold. -CF

    By Anonymous ChrisFisher, at 12:55 PM  

  • It's not my blog, but I'd be turning off anon posting right now. That cure for cancer is waiting!

    It, Lene, no problem.

    Arroyo, I would've agreed about five years ago. I think sexism is getting worse with more women in the field (more women to be shitty to), as their mere prescence seems to suggest there's an "estrogen seal of approval," and that women in=sexism out.

    Not so. On the other hand, I feel the issue has passed the tipping point, and it's now very much in the open that sexism is alive and well, that the field is still shitty for women, and as a new generation comes up with members who see that the web can do what print can do and better (get tham an audience), things will change.

    But comics as they are is a bad boyfriend that needs to be walked away from. He/it is not getting better, and a bouquet of female writers doesn't change that he smacked ya for being uppity.

    By Blogger Lea, at 3:25 PM  

  • Just wanted to let Lene and everyone else know that Brian K. Vaughan has weighed in on I Read Comics #19, which ended up spawning a thread on his page as well as the one at Comic Geek Speak. Here's his reaction to Lene's review of Y and the comments it brought out from some of the posters on his board:

    "Ugh, I deleted the thread about the Y podcast (which you can still listen to here:
    because some of your responses made me want to kill myself.

    I may have strongly disagreed with the reviewer's interpretation of Y, but she bought three trades, and she's certainly entitled to her opinion.

    There were one or two posts that personally insulted her, and I'm never going to stand for that shit. Also, whoever wrote that "this is why I don't take feminists seriously," or "she has no clue as to just how much better women have it in this country than men," has no right to attack someone else's reading comprehension, because you've missed the point of Y more spectacularly than anyone.

    BKV "

    By Blogger TwistedChristopher, at 5:38 PM  

  • Lea,

    Arroyo here with a new account.As a latino i see a more subtle form of racism in the comic field, although im sure it will be more blatant as the years the future will hold for me.

    But you are correct, the web is the future and thanfully it is not tainted by years of ignorance. Frankly i really dont have a right to give my opinion since

    A) I am a man and will never fully understand what you must go through.

    B) I have only been making comics for about 3 years now and 2 of those have been in the latin american market on a very small scale.

    But my optomism prevents me from being so convinced of the bleakness, of the situation. I do think that over time, the amount of women and "minoraties" that will flood the market can not be ignored, not to mention im sure more people will come out and break the silence that these vipers thrive on that allows them to continue with their abuse.

    By Blogger Dave, at 9:29 PM  

  • Damn, LT. You were right....she does look bad...
    They didn't even try to make Gwen the beautiful character she should be....shame....

    By Blogger Glen Glen, at 7:06 PM  

  • I have to say that I'm quite embarressed with some or the comments that are being made on a thread about your reveiw of Y The Last Man at the Comic Geek Speak Forum. It baffles me why anyone would make such personal attacks about a book that is just entertainment nothing more. I can understand people feeling passinote about something but not to the point to put it above person dignity . I always think people should come frist period. I think it should be understood that you can agree to disagree. as very wise man rodney king once said "can't we get along". LT your the best keep rockin the boat.

    By Blogger sandman300, at 7:11 PM  

  • You ARE the progress, Lene...
    Your show makes comics & podcasts more exiting generas to enjoy.
    Never stop doing what you do. OK?

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